This is your Grenfell, Minister.

Baroness Diana Barran, the former Minister for the School System and Minister for Civil Society, speaks to Tom Hashemi.

It’s not always about more money

In September 2023 there was a change of policy in the UK about schools which had Reinforced Autoclave Aerated concrete (RAAC), because we discovered that what we had thought was safe, was actually not safe. These are huge planks of concrete that are used in roofs, and when they come down, they can come down in one piece. You really don't want them coming down anywhere near a child or a teacher. I still remember my first day in office when I sat down with the then director general responsible who said “This is your Grenfell, Minister”*. That gives you a pretty cold feeling in your stomach.

The solution previously had always been that we've got to rebuild these schools, which ultimately may well be true, but that was anywhere between £9 billion and £15 billion pounds, which wasn't, you know, instantly available. And for a few hundred million pounds, everything was made safe. Touch wood, unless somebody didn't tell us they've got RAAC, there isn't a school in the country that has RAAC that is not either being rebuilt now or has had safety measures taken which means the children and staff are safe.

* for non-UK readers: the Grenfell Tower was a high-rise block of flats in London that caught fire in 2017. It was the worst residential fire in the UK since World War Two and caused 72 deaths.

The three things external organisations get wrong

Firstly, there is often an inadequate problem diagnosis, and that's not just external organisations, government does it too. Secondly, there is an overemphasis on money as a solution without clear evidence that money will solve the problem. And thirdly, there is a tendency towards piecemeal approaches rather than a comprehensive strategy informed by operational insights.

It could well be that piecemeal approaches are the answer to many things, but they are just not the answer for government. Government shouldn't operate at a very micro level. We should leave that to the voluntary sector which has always done it very well… book reading groups should be organic community initiatives.

Align yourself with what the government wants to achieve

You need to start by understanding what the government or the minister in question wants to achieve. You're very unlikely to achieve it if it doesn't align with what the government wants to do. Trying to understand their ambitions and how your work does or doesn't fit in with that is important… put yourself in their shoes. But I would say that it would be extremely unlikely that I would get to meet an external organisation and hear their ideas without the blessing of the Civil Service because they are extremely strong gatekeepers.

The questions you need to answer

Does it fit with the Government's strategic priorities? Is there a good problem diagnosis? Is there an implementation model with costs, a plan, and a timetable? (You'd be amazed how many things come forward with no timetable.) Is the funding sufficient? Is this the point of maximum ROI? And, finally, how do we tell the story?

The three things research must have

Quantify the problem and break it down, and find the point of highest social return on investment. What one typically gets as a Minister is an essay. I would like qualitative analysis, quantitative analysis, and financial analysis. If I see all three, I feel like a decent job has been done. And I want to meet some real people—not intermediaries and lobby groups.

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